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Burying Freud

[ Burying Freud Homepage | Freud's Seduction Theory Homepage ]

At 15:16 01/05/1996 +0000, Adrian Ortiz wrote:

De ahi una afirmacion absoluta: no hay posibilidad de operar en psicoanalisis desde una posicion creyente ni en el lugar del analista ni en el lugar del analisante.

Y no me vengan con ..."tengo un paciente religioso"!

Translation :

"Thence an absolute statement : there is no possibility whatsoever to operate in psychoanalysis from the stance of a [religious] believer, neither in the analyst nor in the analysand s place. And don t tell me, I have a religious patient !".

I can t quite understand this, above all if one has read the correspondence exchanged between Freud and O. Pfister. In a letter, Freud comments :

"...how pleased I am that our psychiatric research should have aroused interest from a member of the clergy, who, in virtue of his very investment, has a free access to the souls of so many individuals."

I don t see the unattainable distance meant in the comment above. And one could think Freud s expressions could be understood as a compliment to Pfister, but in a letter to Jung, he emphasizes :

"...I have received a most intelligent letter from Pfister, full of new ideas. Myself and the Protestant Monthly ! Fancy that ! But it does not matter. In some respects, religious therapists work under more favourable conditions".

Why should Freud tell Jung he thought that in some respects religious therapists worked under more favourable conditions than non-religious therapists, if he did not believe it ? I don t understand that.

But there is more. Smiley Blanton, a famous American psychiatrist, was Freud s patient for years. In addition to his psychiatric profession, he was a pastor, and together with the renowned Norman Vincent Peale theologician and elder from the First Presbyterian Church of New York he organized an assistance service in that Church s facilities.

When reading Blanton s autobiography, one learns about the good relationship he had not only with Freud, but with Anna Freud. He did not have to give up any of his [religious] ideas because of his therapy, and like Pfister, he was one of Freud s religious patients.

Moreover, Freud always showed great interest in the results reached by those "religious therapists" (as he called them) from New York.

I think each and every one of us has a right to their own ideas and to maintain them in argument. I think that is democratic thinking. What we are not entitled to is to make those who have already passed away say what they never said, or what they said in a manifestly different sense, just so it coincides with our own views.

I repeat Paul Hamburg s expressions :

1. "ad hominem." Perhaps this is exactly the point. Psychoanalysis is about the person. Rather than trying to truncate psychoanalysis and reify it into just some variant of science---today's cult of choice---it makes much better sense to maintain that tense, uncomfortable and paradoxical relationship between Freud's uncanny decentering of human nature (naming the unconscious) and a discipline of thought regarding the meaning of human passion, fantasy and action. Neither science nor myth. (We are) some of both.

(...) If it's either ad hominem or ad absurdum---I'll stay on the side of the person.

Prof. Daniel Gomez Dupertuis
Departamento de Psicologia
Universidad Nacional de La Plata
Buenos Aires, Argentina


human-nature.com
Ian Pitchford and Robert M. Young - Last updated: 28 May, 2005 02:29 PM

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 | Human Nature | The Human Nature Daily Review | Psychiatry Research Online |

Burying Freud

[ Burying Freud Homepage | Freud's Seduction Theory Homepage ]

At 15:16 01/05/1996 +0000, Adrian Ortiz wrote:

De ahi una afirmacion absoluta: no hay posibilidad de operar en psicoanalisis desde una posicion creyente ni en el lugar del analista ni en el lugar del analisante.

Y no me vengan con ..."tengo un paciente religioso"!

Translation :

"Thence an absolute statement : there is no possibility whatsoever to operate in psychoanalysis from the stance of a [religious] believer, neither in the analyst nor in the analysand s place. And don t tell me, I have a religious patient !".

I can t quite understand this, above all if one has read the correspondence exchanged between Freud and O. Pfister. In a letter, Freud comments :

"...how pleased I am that our psychiatric research should have aroused interest from a member of the clergy, who, in virtue of his very investment, has a free access to the souls of so many individuals."

I don t see the unattainable distance meant in the comment above. And one could think Freud s expressions could be understood as a compliment to Pfister, but in a letter to Jung, he emphasizes :

"...I have received a most intelligent letter from Pfister, full of new ideas. Myself and the Protestant Monthly ! Fancy that ! But it does not matter. In some respects, religious therapists work under more favourable conditions".

Why should Freud tell Jung he thought that in some respects religious therapists worked under more favourable conditions than non-religious therapists, if he did not believe it ? I don t understand that.

But there is more. Smiley Blanton, a famous American psychiatrist, was Freud s patient for years. In addition to his psychiatric profession, he was a pastor, and together with the renowned Norman Vincent Peale theologician and elder from the First Presbyterian Church of New York he organized an assistance service in that Church s facilities.

When reading Blanton s autobiography, one learns about the good relationship he had not only with Freud, but with Anna Freud. He did not have to give up any of his [religious] ideas because of his therapy, and like Pfister, he was one of Freud s religious patients.

Moreover, Freud always showed great interest in the results reached by those "religious therapists" (as he called them) from New York.

I think each and every one of us has a right to their own ideas and to maintain them in argument. I think that is democratic thinking. What we are not entitled to is to make those who have already passed away say what they never said, or what they said in a manifestly different sense, just so it coincides with our own views.

I repeat Paul Hamburg s expressions :

1. "ad hominem." Perhaps this is exactly the point. Psychoanalysis is about the person. Rather than trying to truncate psychoanalysis and reify it into just some variant of science---today's cult of choice---it makes much better sense to maintain that tense, uncomfortable and paradoxical relationship between Freud's uncanny decentering of human nature (naming the unconscious) and a discipline of thought regarding the meaning of human passion, fantasy and action. Neither science nor myth. (We are) some of both.

(...) If it's either ad hominem or ad absurdum---I'll stay on the side of the person.

Prof. Daniel Gomez Dupertuis
Departamento de Psicologia
Universidad Nacional de La Plata
Buenos Aires, Argentina


human-nature.com
Ian Pitchford and Robert M. Young - Last updated: 28 May, 2005 02:29 PM

US -
 Search:
Keywords:  

Amazon.com logo

UK -
 Search:
Keywords:  

Amazon.co.uk logo

 | Human Nature | The Human Nature Daily Review | Psychiatry Research Online |